And why apparently now I have trouble doing it.
Traditional trolley case: Oncoming trolley. Lever for you. If you pull, kill 1 save 5. Do nothing, kill 5 save 1.
The fat man case: Trolley oncoming. Pushing fat man will stop trolley saving 5 lives, but kill the fat man.
Consequentially, the cases have the same effects. 1 down, 5 up.
But why I can't push the fat man is this: I actively participate in his death. With the traditional trolley case, the one person on their own on the tracks has assumed some element of risk by being on the tracks; (regardless of whether they've actually assumed responsibility for taking said danger). However, with the fat man, I take his position from a level that has no risk to one that is actively fatal towards him.
Musing about deontological rights. Wonder if this intuition matters all that much. Wonder what Caroline would say about this...
Traditional trolley case: Oncoming trolley. Lever for you. If you pull, kill 1 save 5. Do nothing, kill 5 save 1.
The fat man case: Trolley oncoming. Pushing fat man will stop trolley saving 5 lives, but kill the fat man.
Consequentially, the cases have the same effects. 1 down, 5 up.
But why I can't push the fat man is this: I actively participate in his death. With the traditional trolley case, the one person on their own on the tracks has assumed some element of risk by being on the tracks; (regardless of whether they've actually assumed responsibility for taking said danger). However, with the fat man, I take his position from a level that has no risk to one that is actively fatal towards him.
Musing about deontological rights. Wonder if this intuition matters all that much. Wonder what Caroline would say about this...
4 comments:
I feel like if I don't push the fat man, my lack of courage to disobey social norms has stopped me from saving lives.
But I must admit, your explanation is fantastic. In fact, it convinces me more everytime I think about it. It's just so seductive.
Your explanation is a whore.
Of course my explanation(s) is a whore. More importantly, it's a good whore, the kind that gets repeat business and extensions.
Either way, I might have to think it through more. The issue might be that it's not the level of risk faced by the victim, but rather the level of responsibility that you take for pulling the switch/pushing the fat man.
The level of risk does feel like a tipping point though.
You are making assumptions about why and how the people are in these situations which inevitably weight your decision one way or the other. The single person on the tracks may believe themself just as safe as the fat man besides the track as the secondary track is unused or shut down or they know that particular train is meant to stay on the other track.
If you are making the judgment based on the individual's value for their own life couldn't you go so far as to say the fat man is leading an unhealthy lifestyle and will have a shorter lifespan and runs a greater risk of early death due to many obesity related diseases? Surely this is worse then merely being on train tracks that without intervention no train should use.
Also you worded the trolley case incorrectly. It is meant to be 'Pull the lever to kill 1 and save 5. Do nothing and 5 die while 1 lives.' It's a pretty fundamental point to the question.
All that said i'd think if you try to push the fat man onto the tracks he'd throw you on instead. I really can't see you overpowering a guy big enough to stop a train :P
I'm not going to respond to the assumptions claim, as that would be meaningless. Of course I am. That's the whole fucking point. In response to the disused track thing, that's actually one of the decent objections to this claim.
Wait, you accuse me making assumptions that 'weight the question', then posit this crazy fucking scenario where the fat man dies a slow death from obesity-related conditions?! Seriously, what the hell.
If you consider the semantics of the question that important, you've missed the point of it. I'm trying to illustrate consequentialist aspects of the case, the wording isn't something that's terribly important to it. Hell, the entire post is fairly well written quite casually, I trust my audience will gather and correct. Apparently not, I guess.
He's a fat guy! Come on! His arms would be too stubby to really grab me. And if I have momentum of surprise...
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